How Much Money The “Gurus” Make… And How They Do It

Hey Ray, Thanks for the very useful information as I am gathering to put a post on my blog.

Go down to the River and the Ash, the isolated Wood and Wild to find the Guru. If your seeking is done on the Inter-Webs with digital fingers instead of miles on foot what do you expect but to be led by your nose/conned? Similarly the most in-touch Judeo-Christian-Muslims do not find the true words of Christ/Allah in Million Dollar Temples. Just a thought. SoyCello@gmail.com

Great article, and well put, Ray.

I've always appreciated your writing style and know that you're a well-respected copywriter. I have a comment first, then a question:

I just recently came across the whole Syndicate thing and Salty Droid, through one of Ryan Healy's recent emails. I guess Im a little late to the party. However, I too have subscribed to all of these guys emails at one time or another, many of them still, and always wanting to buy some of their big products. But I never did, mainly because the prices were what I thought way too high.

Another thing that always turned me off - every time one of the big IM launches came out, I'd get affiliate emails from them all, promoting the same launch. So, I always thought to myself: "dont these guys make money by employing the strategies they teach, or do they just make cash from affiliate commissions on each others products? To this day, I still wonder. I suppose they do have other business than selling IM info products, most say they do, but I wonder.

Ok, that's my comment, now for the question...

Since I've never bought any of their "legendary" products (ie. Stompernet, Mass Control, PLF, et al) - here's my question: Are any of these products actually worth the money? I mean, are they good? Do they render the education they claim to? All of those guys, for the most part, seem to know what they're talking about. And their sales letters, videos, emails, etc. always appear to be pretty high quality productions.

Mind you, I agree that the anti-competitive stuff that's going on is slimy at best. And based on the things Im now finding out, I'll likely never buy one their products, and damn glad I never did.

I'd just like to know, from anyone who's ever bought any of the major guru's products: is their stuff any good?

Love to hear your thoughts, or anyone else who's been a customer of the "Syndicate".

And Im assuming this post means that you're no longer writing copy for these gurus? :) I'm sure you've got plenty of business outside of the IM niche to keep you plenty busy either way.

Thanks Ray, you the man...

Best,
Jim

I agree with what you say as I have also sign up for many of the courses offered by some of the gurus.

I like how you've got a picture of an Indian Yogi as your image or link to the "gurus". That is quite funny.

I woke up to the conspiracy to take my money a few months ago after spending probably over $5000 from hard earned savings and money I didn't really have. I became more and more desperate and convinced that one of the products would work and even help me in my niche. Eventually I joined a Forum where they give you information to succeed online for free and at that point I stopped purchasing Guru IM products. I am better for it now and do not purchase such products as most of them are hype anyway. I now only purchase products that will help me with backlinks and maybe an ebook here and there.
I am happy I woke up but kicking myself at all that money I wasted for no results. Still better late than never.

Ray,Great post and I agree with you. By the way, who are the people in this "syndicate"? Whoever is writing their copy is very good because they get me most every time. It's my own fault getting distracted by the next "bright shiny object", but I find I have nowhere near the skills needed to implement what they teach. Then, When I try to outsource to somewhere like the Philippines, I find that I don't know enough about how to do the things I'm asking them to do to tell if they are doing it right or if they are telling me something is 8 hours of work when it only takes them 10 minutes.It appears it's necessary to learn the tech stuff (how to FTP, put tracking code on a web page, etc) or to find someone you really, really trust.

Excellent post Ray.

Is there a 'list' anywhere that indicates who are the good guys and who I should be wary of?

Steve.

Thanks for the eye opener Ray; for some of us who surely suspected - but could not verify nor speak authoritatively with first hand knowledge of that "inner sanctum syndicate racketeering".

You and Ryan Healy are appreciated at the every least because of your integrity , and more so, for your Primo top--shelf work, in the field of copywriting and internet marketing.

Ray, this post deserves what I've coined for those special people, things, or events..."boss player" status. I dig this a lot, and appreciate the candor you put into it. I'm personal friends with some of the same guru's you've written for, so I know you're spot on. My 2 cents is this in regard to this post, and that's for people to let go of the fear of being left out and grasp the idea of theirs plenty for everybody. It's no way possible any one person or set of guru's can earn it all. Find your position, and play the hell out of it. Thanks again, Ray.

Kevin Madison

Ok, I have to say that for a moment there you started making me feel guilty. But then I thought more about it after reading all the comments.

See, I am at the moment creating my very first product launch. A few things about it; anyone can find all the information I am going to teach online, but I had spent a couple of years learning it all (without buying other's products), and I really feel that it can help many small businesses increase their number of customers. Although, the customers can find all this information themselves, buying my product will save them the 2 years and brainstorming it took me.

I really do believe in my product and want to make sure that at the end of it, everyone who purchases it will benefit from it tremendously. And I want it to be affordable so I am putting a low price at $250 instead of $2,000, which most gurus would charge for it.

That all said, I am not feeling guilty anymore, but will try my best to make sure that the people who purchase it will use it so that they don't just put it on the shelf and then say that it was a scam. Because, in my 10 years of business experience, the customers that complain are the ones that don't do their part. Some these days, expect a magic pill in which they won't have to do anything but still gain results.

So, thank you so much for your post, because I am going to restructure my course in a way to make it easy for them to take action.

Great article. Strange how so few marketing teachers don't apply a much better system:

1. Show people how to make money.
2. Show them how to make more money.

Perry Marshall is a good example of someone who helps people build real businesses.

I think the problem is "making money" isn't easy. And people want easy. There are easier ways to do it -- but none of it is easy in the end. It can sure be fun. Be easy. In fact, is easy fun? Is easy satisfying?

That and people would rather be told a lie they like. You see it with health. They'd rather believe taking some blood pressure medication is going to solve their problems -- instead of exercise, more rest and a better diet -- when really the drug is just making it worse while making pharmaceutical companies a fortune with their 5000% mark ups.

Wow!

Nice.

Maybe we'll put out the welcome mat to greet you when you next step into the "Club of Plain Speakers" :lol:

"IT’S TIME TO GET OFF THE MERRY-GO-ROUND. "

But, I like riding Merry-go-rounds! :-)

Seriously ... well written article my friend. Really good stuff!

Hi Ray,
Could not agree with you more. I learnt through trial and error and copying real people how to make money online, because of the Guru lies I have started www.internet-opportunity-news.com to help people find the genuine opportunities and methods to make money online without buying the guru products. People should ask themsleves before buying any how to get rich product this question, if it is so good why are they selling it without any future benefit from the customer. Why don't they take a % of the customers future business for helping them if their methods really work? D.R.

If what these gurus do is so reprehensible why do you continue to write it for them?

Well, I'll be ...

That was really nice to hear from you! Coming to think of it, I don't remember you having promoted these bug guru's 1 997 (cleverly instead of 2 000) to 5 997 (instead of 6 000).

I guess they need for the Porsche and the big house.

Brave of you to put it so plainly. I guess you will hear a lot about it!

I couldn't agree with you more Ray. You can learn a lot from the launches without actually buying what they are selling. Start selling and stop buying so much!!!

But Ray, "It's not their fault." :)
Great post. Unfortunately, most won't see through the transparency and keep looking for that magic pill.

FINALLY!!! Someone (you, Ray), exposed what's really going on in the IM world... and it's about time! You delicately and non-offensively, but very powerfully pulled back the curtain and let your faithful followers in on the behind the scenes workings of the money-extraction machine that has been honed to perfection and is making a handful of people wealthy while keeping people who blindly trust them disillusioned, wanting more, and broke,

A common term that the IM "gurus" use to describe their ideal market or client is... "Slow learners with deep pockets." While that does make for good repeat clients, it's kind of scary. There's an old saying, "There's a sucker born every minute." Every one of us is in some way, a "sucker" for something, I suppose. Unfortunately, too many of the IM "gurus" have found a way to access the "sucker gene", bring it to the surface and cause it to make people make poor decisions and do very unreasonable things.

How do they do it? By appealing to not one, but several of "The Seven Deadly Sins." Here's what they are. Take a look and see how many of them are touched on in the next flurry of "gotta-have-this-product" emails. Greed, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Pride, Wrath, and Sloth.

Thank you for caring enough to share these thoughts. Hopefully, your followers will pay attention and stop being allured by, and taken in by the next "bright, shiny object" that promises to be the exact thing that they need to rescue them from their hum-drum lives, give them the financial security and lifestyle they long for, and the absolute last thing they'll ever need to buy.

Well, I can honestly say that I have never heard it spoken so honestly! However, I don't blame any of the marketing gurus or make money online gurus because they found a system that works and makes them money. I actually find the marketing world quite political :) The one thing I disagree with however is people have money to spend. In these times, a lot of people are looking for ways to feed their families after losing a job and this is where marketers can be a little more sensitive.

Awesome article Ray.

A few things --> As a copywriter, is it breaking the moral code to write for somebody when you don't agree with their products? When you think they're ripping people off? When you think it is borderline a scam?

Personally, I no longer accept jobs I don't believe deliver excellent value to people who truly could benefit from buying. I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on this.

Additionally - people have always been told "you get what you pay for". It is ingrained in their heads. At least in the 35+ crowd. The gurus are taking advantage of this by selling $2000 products when there is often a comparable product for $100-200 that is many times just as good.

Interesting. I get a lot of emails from different IM's each week. Not to buy their crap. But to see how they are doing it. And the one thing I have said over and over again is the fact all of them are promoting each other's crap so much, there is an overload.

Finally someone said what needed to be said and Ray, you nailed it. What a refreshing post to actually see someone say what too many of us have been thinking. Thanks!!!

Hi Ray,
A very good post, I have been following your email for the past 3 to 4 years, I remember the sales pitches you made, weren't you one of the gurus your now talking about.. :) no pun intended.
I agree, with you that its time people got off the merry-go-around, I find that people are so desperate to make money online with all the promises that have been made, that they are willing to spend their last dollar on the promise... These so called Gurus, target these desperate and venerable people out there who genuinly want to make an extra income to make ends meet
Most of the Gurus talk about giving back to the world, wouldnt it be nice to hear of some guru taking a handful of people and making it happen for them, changing someones life forever... I have been marketing online for the past 2 years now, although I dont make big dollars yet, but I still help hundreds of people in our mastermind groups for free... I know it takes up alot of my time, but the thought of bringing someone closer to financial freedom is the bigest gift of all. I do it with out expectation.
I guess they have to keep having the big launches, and they have to keep selling stuff, and the people we are talking about will still buy, hoping and praying that some day, they can live the life of these gurus, not even realising that the money these gurus make is the hard sweat and tears of peoples hard earn money that is supporting their life style.. enough said
I like your honesty, and I have always respected your professionalism.. Your a great guy...
and i know what your thinking... each one is responsible for their own decisions.. right

This is an excellent blog post...

Something I learned awhile back is that you shouldn't buy anything until you need it. When you come to a place in your business where you need a course on a certain traffic generation method, product creation method, etc. go and find it. You'll likely pay less than what the "gurus" charge for their courses during a product launch, and you'll be much more likely to actually apply what you learn.

I've learned to overlook the "hype" and just watch what the gurus do and I've learned a lot that way.

Excellent post Ray.

Otherwise you end up spending money on things that you don't need or can't use because you're not ready for it.

Watching what people actually DO in the midst of hearing what they are saying is a good idea in all areas of our lives. It's hard, mostly because our actions and our words do not match up most of the time, and especially when we want to trust somebody else more than we trust ourselves and our gut instinct. We want to believe that somebody else has the secret that will solve all our problems, but nobody has that. We have to listen and learn, yes, but then we have to DO SOMETHING. We have to take a risk and sometimes screw up, and that's how we learn, just like toddlers. Online marketing is just a newer, faster, scarier opportunity for snake-oil sales because the web is so huge. Humans are still humans and we still have to watch and learn, same as always. Thanks for your voice of sanity in the sea of confusion, Ray!

Hello Ray,
it's exactly what everyone suspects and they also don't know what to do about it.
keep up the good work
I love it,

Mike

Thanks, Ray, you've done a valuable service with this post. Most of these gurus remind me of the old adverts in the back of magazines, "Make a Million Stuffing Envelopes". When you send away your money you get a kit instructing you to place an ad saying "Make a Million Stuffing Envelopes"!

The real disservice the 'fakirs' are doing is obscuring the true gurus who really do have something, service, system or otherwise to offer; who drink their own Koolaid(r) and are more than happy to share it. I'm savvy enough to avoid a scam (intentional or otherwise) but not smart enough to know when it isn't.